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Yesterday WikiLeaks did an amazing thing and released a classified State Department cable that dealt, in part, with me and my film, 'Sicko.'

It is a stunning look at the Orwellian nature of how bureaucrats for the State spin their lies and try to recreate reality (I assume to placate their bosses and tell them what they want to hear).

The date is January 31, 2008. It is just days after 'Sicko' has been nominated for an Oscar as Best Documentary. This must have sent someone reeling in Bush's State Department (his Treasury Department had already notified me they were investigating what laws I might have broken in taking three 9/11 first responders to Cuba to get them the health care they had been denied in the United States).

Former health insurance executive Wendell Potter recently revealed that the insurance industry -- which had decided to spend millions to go after me and, if necessary, "push Michael Moore off a cliff" -- had begun working with anti-Castro Cubans in Miami in order to have them speak out and smear my film.

So, on January 31, 2008, a State Department official stationed in Havana took a made up story and sent it back to his HQ in Washington. Here's what they concocted:

XXXXXXXXXXXX stated that Cuban authorities have banned Michael Moore's documentary, "Sicko," as being subversive. Although the film's intent is to discredit the U.S. healthcare system by highlighting the excellence of the Cuban system, he said the regime knows the film is a myth and does not want to risk a popular backlash by showing to Cubans facilities that are clearly not available to the vast majority of them.

Sounds convincing, eh?! There's only one problem -- 'Sicko' had just been playing in Cuban theaters. Then the entire nation of Cuba was shown the film on national television on April 25, 2008! The Cubans embraced the film so much so it became one of those rare American movies that received a theatrical distribution in Cuba. I personally ensured that a 35mm print got to the Film Institute in Havana. Screenings of 'Sicko' were set up in towns all across the country.

But the secret cable said Cubans were banned from seeing my movie. Hmmm.  

We also know from another secret U.S. document that "the disenchantment of the masses [in Cuba] has spread through all the provinces," and that "all of Oriente Province is seething with hate" for the Castro regime. There's a huge active underground rebellion, and "workers there readily give all the support they can," with everyone involved in "subtle sabotage" against the government. Morale is terrible throughout all the branches of the armed forces, and in the event of war the army "will not fight." Wow -- this cable is hot!

Of course, this secret U.S. cable is from March 31, 1961, three weeks before Cuba kicked our asses at the Bay of Pigs.

The U.S. government has been passing around these "secret" documents to itself for the past fifty years, explaining in painstaking detail how horrible things are in Cuba and how Cubans are quietly aching for us to come back and take over. I don't know why we write these cables, I guess it just makes us feel better about ourselves. (Anyone curious can find an entire museum of U.S. wish fulfillment cables on the website of the National Security Archive.)  

So what do you do with about a false "secret" cable, especially one that involves you and your movie? Well, you wait for a responsible newspaper to investigate and shout what it discovers from the rooftops.

But yesterday WikiLeaks gave the 'Sicko' Cuba cable to the media -- and what did they do with it? They ran it as if it were true! Here's the headline in the Guardian:

WikiLeaks: Cuba banned Sicko for depicting 'mythical' healthcare systemAuthorities feared footage of gleaming hospital in Michael Moore's Oscar-nominated film would provoke a popular backlash

And not one scintilla of digging to see if Cuba had actually banned the movie! In fact, just the opposite. The right wing press started to have a field day reporting a lie (Andy Levy of Fox -- twice -- Reason Magazine, Spectator and Hot Air, plus a slew of blogs). Sadly, even BoingBoing and my friends at the Nation wrote about it without skepticism. So here you have WikiLeaks, who have put themselves on the line to find and release these cables to the press -- and traditional journalists are once again just too lazy to lift a finger, point and click their mouse to log into Nexis or search via Google, and look to see if Cuba really did "ban the film." Had just ONE reporter done that, here's they would have found:

June 16, 2007 Saturday 1:41 AM GMT [that's 7 months before the false cable]

HEADLINE: Cuban health minister says Moore's 'Sicko' shows 'human values' of communist system

BYLINE: By ANDREA RODRIGUEZ, Associated Press Writer

DATELINE: HAVANA

Cuba's health minister Jose Ramon Balaguer said Friday that American filmmaker Michael Moore's documentary 'Sicko' highlights the human values of the island's communist-run government... "There can be no doubt this documentary by a personality like Mr. Michael Moore helps promote the profoundly human principles of Cuban society."

Or, how 'bout this little April 25, 2008 notice from CubaSi.Cu (translation by Google):

Sicko premiere in Cuba


25/04/2008

The documentary Sicko, the U.S. filmmaker Michael Moore, which deals about the deplorable state of American health care system will be released today at 5:50 pm, for the space Cubavision Roundtable and the Education Channel.

Then there's this from Juventudrebelde.cu (translation by Google). Or this Cuban editorial (translation by Google). There's even a long clip of the Cuba section of 'Sicko' on the homepage of Media Roundtable on the CubaSi.cu website!

OK, so we know the media is lazy and sucks most of the time. But the bigger issue here is how our government seemed to be colluding with the health insurance industry to destroy a film that might have a hand in bringing about what the Cubans already have in their poverty-ridden third world country: free, universal health care. And because they have it and we don't, Cuba has a better infant mortality rate than we do, their life expectancy is just 7 months shorter than ours, and, according to the WHO, they rank just two places behind the richest country on earth in terms of the quality of their health care.

That's the story, mainstream media and right-wing haters.

Now that you've been presented with the facts, what are you going to do about it? Are you gonna attack me for having my movie played on Cuban state television? Or are you gonna attack me for not having my movie played on Cuban state television?

You have to choose one, it can't be both.

And since the facts show that the movie played on state TV and in theaters, I think you're better off attacking me for having my films played in Cuba.

¡Viva WikiLeaks!

Originally posted to Michael Moore on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 03:38 AM PST.

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  •  Tip Jar (309+ / 0-)
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  •  The government lied to us (47+ / 0-)

    on behalf of insurance company scoundrels? Who would have guessed? I'm shocked I tell ya - NOT!

    "Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat, yet he's a better Democrat than most Democrats." -- Markos Moulitsas http://213.251.145.96

    by Sagebrush Bob on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 03:45:41 AM PST

  •  Tipped for (31+ / 0-)

    U.S. wish fulfillment cables

    if nothing else.

    These cables are endlessly fascinating. A melange of gossip, hard fact (both under-reported and non-reported), minutiae, and ... you guessed it.. whatever the apparatchik several floors above (or a continent or two away) deemed 'prudent.'

    I read the reporting of this cable, and knew it was the proverbial red herring. The Cubans have a crack medical squad well tuned to dealing with local disasters.

    To wit

    "Space Available!" is the biggest retail chain in the nation.

    by Free Jazz at High Noon on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 04:00:41 AM PST

  •  Bush refuses Cuban aid (37+ / 0-)

    following Katrina

    Despite Cuba's many problems, the Communist country has established one of the finest public health care systems in the developing world, exporting thousands of doctors to poor parts of the Caribbean, Latin American, Africa, and Asia. The island nation is frequently hit by hurricanes and—despite its lack of resources—has demonstrated a far greater ability to handle these storms' extreme winds and flooding with minimal loss of life than the far wealthier United States. Similarly, its doctors are well-trained to deal with such natural disasters.

    "Space Available!" is the biggest retail chain in the nation.

    by Free Jazz at High Noon on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 04:06:40 AM PST

  •  Michael, you evil commie heathen... (37+ / 0-)

    thanks for all that you do and for all of the "little" people that you stand up for.
    The world is a better place with you in it.
    As Always...Peace, if possible. ;-)>

    "We're right in the middle of a fucking reptile zoo! And somebody's giving booze to these goddamn things!"-Hunter S. Thompson ;-)>

    by rogerdaddy on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 04:17:56 AM PST

  •  The lengths to which (36+ / 0-)

    governments and corporations will go to cover up their doings and/or propagandize and control information amazes me.

    Wouldn't it be easier to just do the right thing in the first place?

    Doesn't it occur to the people who go out and clean up the messes, or try to skew public opinion that if they just treated people fairly in the first place life would be much easier for everyone?

    •  It is so complicated (12+ / 0-)

      because lying to yourself makes your life more complicated.  I watched Green Zone last night and it made me think about all the shenanigans that went on leading up to the Iraq war.  Did all the lying really make a better outcome in the end for the US?  Would being straightforward and honest really have ruined us?  Especially when you look at everything in the long term.  "They" would say it is all for national security.  But really, have lies helped us or hurt us more?

      •  Yes, Catlady, and being lied to all your life by (7+ / 0-)

        the so-called "authority" figures around you can make for an existence that borders on living in Alice's rabbit hole. Mental health professionals call it "crazy-making."

        Sadly, we don't know how the Bush administration's lies have affected what you referred to as the "outcome in the end for the US," because we haven't yet reached the end of the Iraq nightmare.

        Tax cuts for everybody, but no EXTRA tax cuts for the rich.

        by RJDixon74135 on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 06:48:37 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I think the answer is (11+ / 0-)

        an emphatic "Yes."  The lies have hurt us more, and a lot of other people too.

        The torturing alone has done great damage to the reputation of this country and I don't see how we'll ever regain the moral high ground on that issue.  Some things you just can't fully recover from, especially if your country refuses to deal with the issue honestly, refuses to hold people accountable, refuses to investigate past administrations, and ends up changing rules and laws and destroying evidence instead.  And worst, if the torturing and renditions don't stop, and just continue, further underground and with yet more covering up while the highest elected official insists that it will not be done on his watch.

  •  You got my vote, should you ever run (26+ / 0-)

    It's not what a man says, it's what he does.  And I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

    "Tiger got to hunt, Bird got to fly. Man got to sit and wonder, why? why? why?"

    by tRueffert on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 04:27:53 AM PST

  •  So when will Amelia Hill of the Guardian (17+ / 0-)

    submit a correction?

    Journalamism. Easy gig.

    O snail, climb Mount Fuji, but slowly, slowly! - Issa

    by bumblebums on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 04:33:36 AM PST

  •  You keep committing the unbearable sin (43+ / 0-)

    of being right.

    You will never know forgiveness or peace from the intended recipients of that wisdom, but I wish they sold whatever it is that motivates you and Julian Assange in bucket-sized batches at grocery stores.

  •  Lastly (32+ / 0-)

    It must be fascinating to find out about all the things that were going on behind your back during the making and screening of these movies.  First the disclosures from Wendell Potter about what the insurance industry was doing, and now State Dept. cables.  What is it that they say about paranoia?  ...doesn't mean they aren't after you, or some such.  Well whatever paranoia Moore must have had during the making/screening of his movies was not unjustified... and then some.

    It still blows me away that Potter revealed that the insurance industry knew about nyceve's rec listed diary here about Nataline Sarkisyan almost immediately and was responding.

    •  I don't think that's surprising at all. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JeffW

      It still blows me away that Potter revealed that the insurance industry knew about nyceve's rec listed diary here about Nataline Sarkisyan almost immediately and was responding.

      There is probably a person a every major company who is assigned to surf the Web daily for mention of the employing company, and to bring unfavorable mentions to the attention of the top management.  It's called, "Know thy enemy."

      Renewable energy brings national security.

      by Calamity Jean on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 02:16:56 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Don't you just love propaganda? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    conchita, eigenlambda, cedar park

    Thank fully the citizens of Cuba were kept from seeing this obviously subversive film.  Ha Ha Ha

  •  Okay, so we don't want wikileaks because (13+ / 0-)

    it exposes lies? Got it.

    Thanks for all your efforts, Micheal.  Keep up the good work on behalf of ordinary people.

    I just read Wendell Potter's book, which I was motivated to read after seeing him apologize to you on Keith Olbermann.  The book is very readable and very eye opening.  I found myself really enraged at times, and babbling about it to everyone I see.  It was so informative, especially about the public relations industry, which he is careful to say is not always evil.  He does such a good job drawing the connections between the tobacco industry public relations campaigns of the past (especially the very successful campaigns to entice young women to smoke in the 1920s) and the lessons learned and applied by not only the health insurance industry, but big oil, big soda and others, especially big finance today.  It is truly disgusting.  

    People on this website refer to "astro-turf" campaigns and organizations that are created by slick PR companies to give the impression of popular support for an idea on behalf of their clients, but Potter goes into the details, and explains how the system works.  And why it works:  there is very little real media attention to these things beyond reporting the press releases put out by these PR companies and their puppets.  There is seemingly so little curiosity about where the funding for all these slick campaigns is coming from, in part at least because news companies have cut back so much and there is very little real journalism going on.  I can't recommend Potter's book enough.

    Although, I did refuse to buy the book at the store, so as not to contribute too much to Potter because I don't think he deserves to be financially rewarded.  I ordered it through interlibrary loan and had to wait several weeks to get it because apparently, there are less than 10 copies available in central Mass. and lots of people are on the waiting list.  It was worth the wait.

    •  Eye opening documentary from the BBC (9+ / 0-)

      called The Century Of Self: Happiness Machines

      It's a four part series on Google Videos. I haven't been able to embed without the autoplay activating. Just click on the link. Here's a description,

      The story of the relationship between Sigmund Freud and his American nephew, Edward Bernays. Bernays invented the public relations profession in the 1920s and was the first person to take Freud's ideas to manipulate the masses. He showed American corporations how they could make people want things they didn't need by systematically linking mass-produced goods to their unconscious desires. Bernays was one of the main architects of the modern techniques of mass-consumer persuasion, using every trick in the book, from celebrity endorsement and outrageous PR stunts, to eroticising the motorcar. His most notorious coup was breaking the taboo on women smoking by persuading them that cigarettes were a symbol of independence and freedom. But Bernays was convinced that this was more than just a way of selling consumer goods. It was a new political idea of how to control the masses. By satisfying the inner irrational desires that his uncle had identified, people could be made happy and thus docile. It was the start of the all-consuming self which has come to dominate today's world.

      Please watch this as it will explain SO MUCH of our current predicament.

      Cynicism is voter suppression we do to ourselves. h/t Errol

      by kafkananda on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 07:46:10 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  So these cables are proven erroneous. Why are we (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RJDixon74135, GrumpyOldGeek

    supposed to be so excited about these Wikileaks again?

    And why do you think Assange and Wikileaks are slowly releasing the cables?  Why not just post them all up at once?  Do you think there might be a profit motive involved?

    I'm also a bit amazed that you put so much stock in statistics, Michael, especially statistics gathered by a regime that hasn't been democratically elected in 50 years.

    I think we should lift the Cuban embargo, and we should be able to travel freely to and from Cuba, but I'm not ready to relocate to Fidel's dominion.

    I guess if I had a choice between Free Speech and Free Health Care, I would take the Free Speech.  

    It would be nice to have both though, like those rapacious Swedes do.

    "Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes" -Marx

    by Jose Bidenio on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 05:13:12 AM PST

    •  pssst! (24+ / 0-)

      but I'm not ready to relocate to Fidel's dominion

      who says they want you there?

      "It takes two to lie. One to lie, one to hear it." Homer Simpson

      by Euroliberal on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 05:34:08 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  "erroneous" is one thing (23+ / 0-)

      Purposely misleading, deceitful, false propaganda is quite another. One is a mistake; the other is a damned lie.

      And if Uncle Sugar will lie about a mere documentary, in order to protect the insurance industry, then I shudder to think what else he's lied about. Oh, wait...

      Throw in a complicit media machine whose sole purpose seems to be raking in advertising dollars and misleading the public, and I think it's something worth getting excited about.

      Compromise is peace, power is slavery, capitulation is strength

      by Executive Odor on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 05:40:33 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Perhaps. Or perhaps Sicko was banned at the time (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        fisheye, GrumpyOldGeek

        of the cable.  Communist countries can ban and unban things for various and arbitrary reasons with a wave of the hand.

        Exactly who was supposed to be the audience for this "misleading, deceitful, false propaganda"?  The American public?  Don't think so.  Health Insurers?  Don't think so.

        So are you saying that govt was lying to itself?  Do you lie to yourself very often?  Is it effective?  Do you put it in writing?

        Maybe our govt needs to see a therapist if it's lying to itself.  There we could agree.

        "Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes" -Marx

        by Jose Bidenio on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 05:48:38 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Just curious... (20+ / 0-)

          did you even read the diary?

          Did you catch the part about the insurance industry spending millions to discredit "Sicko", and Michael Moore?

          Admittedly, I may be biased. I've come to a place where I trust virtually nothing uttered in public or private by anyone representing the US government.

          Adios.

          Compromise is peace, power is slavery, capitulation is strength

          by Executive Odor on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 05:59:41 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  The cable doesn't claim that SICKO was banned (0+ / 0-)

            Some anecdote from some source quoted by the cable said that Sicko was banned.

            There's a big difference. A difference that seems to have confused many people.

            This wasn't a comment uttered in private or public by anyone representing the US Gov't. It was a comment from someone else which was relayed by a gov't official of some sort.

        •  I would say that your last sentence is the (7+ / 0-)

          correct one. The rest sounds like sour grapes.

          "I got news for you, pal... They're gonna nail us no matter what we do, so we might as well have a good time." -Otter

          by The House on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 05:59:47 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  In the diary. Hey? (8+ / 0-)

           

          June 16, 2007 Saturday 1:41 AM GMT [that's 7 months before the false cable]

             HEADLINE: Cuban health minister says Moore's 'Sicko' shows 'human values' of communist system

             BYLINE: By ANDREA RODRIGUEZ, Associated Press Writer

             DATELINE: HAVANA

             Cuba's health minister Jose Ramon Balaguer said Friday that American filmmaker Michael Moore's documentary 'Sicko' highlights the human values of the island's communist-run government... "There can be no doubt this documentary by a personality like Mr. Michael Moore helps promote the profoundly human principles of Cuban society."

          You are really trying to defend them. LOL.

          A Creative Revolution- - To revolt within society in order to make it a little better- Krishnamurti

          by pale cold on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 06:02:00 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  So the insurance industry spends millions to get, (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Don midwest, GrumpyOldGeek

            among other things, this ambassador to type up a cable that was intended to never be seen by the public to do what exactly.

            And it's NOT possible to ban Sicko while the Cuban health minister puts out a press release telling Cubans what's in Sicko?

            Then Fidel sees it and decides to air it sometime after?

            Your evidence/proof tolerance is pretty weak.  There is no proof that Sicko was not banned at the time the cable was written, or that its author didn't in fact believe it to be true at the time it was written.

            Critical thought is a long lost art obviously.

            "Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes" -Marx

            by Jose Bidenio on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 06:11:58 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Or that the state dept's source was incorrect. (0+ / 0-)

              ZOMG...Sicko was in theaters there....ZOMG that is why health care is so expensive here...they're lying to us and they set up all these LIE PANELS  OH NOESSSs!!!!!

              whatever, wikileaks reminds me of little kids looking for their prize decoder at the bottom of their Fruit Loops or Lucky Charms cereal.

              "Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes" -Marx

              by Jose Bidenio on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 06:16:05 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  So.... (9+ / 0-)

                These kinds of "secret" memos are never used to support an agenda, or to give more credence to a government policy, or to bolster the philosophies of some sect of high-powered ideologues.

                Never happens. Never will. Except when it does.

                We are currently involved in at least two wars, thanks to the same kind of bullshit.

                Compromise is peace, power is slavery, capitulation is strength

                by Executive Odor on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 06:25:01 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  "Critical thought is a long lost art obviously." (5+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Marie, conchita, KateCrashes, Salo, wabird

                Your comments offer your proof it seems.

                "I got news for you, pal... They're gonna nail us no matter what we do, so we might as well have a good time." -Otter

                by The House on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 06:41:38 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Seriously, people should have to state their age (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  jconn

                  and location when they post.

                  Who makes statements like yours besides people barely out of high school?

                  It sounds exactly like, "I know you are, but what am I", with no analysis or critical thought whatsoever.

                  I am convinced that most of Julian's fans are in fact very young and still rebelling against their parents and authority in general.  It's cute and annoying.

                  "Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes" -Marx

                  by Jose Bidenio on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 07:49:09 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Be annoyed Jose. You clearly have an axe to grind (6+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    SLKRR, conchita, Salo, poxonyou, JesseCW, wabird

                    and I needn't restate what others already have in response to your pedantic comments. Have a good day.

                    "I got news for you, pal... They're gonna nail us no matter what we do, so we might as well have a good time." -Otter

                    by The House on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 07:56:33 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Re: pedantic. Using this word also makes (0+ / 0-)

                      you this word.

                      "Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes" -Marx

                      by Jose Bidenio on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 08:34:54 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  On the contrary, I am much more concerned with (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        wabird

                        the spirit of the Law and Journalism, not so much the letter of it, especially when adherence to the letter violates the spirit. In the course of this discussion between yourself and a few others who seem to be on your side, and those, like me, upholding the spirit of the sentiment that Michael Moore, and Mr. Assange do care about seeing the cause of Justice enhanced, you seem to be getting stuck on the details of who published what when, as if that could ever possibly refute the fact that big money interests have certainly tried to injure the both of these men.

                        I cannot see why you would try to advance or defend this idea. But that does not make me nor my thinking pedantic, I do not believe. Perhaps you could try to explain your motivation.

                        "I got news for you, pal... They're gonna nail us no matter what we do, so we might as well have a good time." -Otter

                        by The House on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 12:16:58 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  I know that folks have schedules, but I do (0+ / 0-)

                        hope that this is not the last I will hear from you on this subject. And for that matter, I hope to dialog with you on more subjects than this. Meantime, be well.

                        "I got news for you, pal... They're gonna nail us no matter what we do, so we might as well have a good time." -Otter

                        by The House on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 07:14:23 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                  •  How is life these days (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    JesseCW

                    for teens, in Never-Never Land?

                    just askin'

                    Seriously, people should have to state their age and location when they post.

                    We do not forgive our candidates their humanity, therefore we compel them to appear inhuman

                    by twigg on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 09:08:32 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  I'm sorry that getting old is going so badly (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    wabird

                    for you.

                    The Democratic Platform won 235 seats. Betraying it lost 42.

                    by JesseCW on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 11:01:05 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

            •  Hello? (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Kevskos, The House, bnasley

              Read the diary.
              My tolerance?
              That hole you are digging is getting deeper and deeper.

              Amusing and transparent to say the least. :)
              Six feet thus far.

              A Creative Revolution- - To revolt within society in order to make it a little better- Krishnamurti

              by pale cold on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 06:18:25 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  It's not like that cable is the only source for (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                jconn

                the assertion that Cuba had in fact banned Sicko.

                THE SICKO DOCUMENTARY IS BANNED IN CUBA
                10-08-2007

                Havana, August 6, 2007.-There is no doubt that the Cuban authorities will not allow the Cuban people the possibility of watching this documentary by Michael Moore, a leading movie producer and ideological ally of the Cuban regime.

                I read somewhere that Cuba is 2nd only to China in locking up journalists and stifling free speech.

                Maybe they did show Sicko there.  Maybe the screening was edited, I dunno.  It makes sense to me that they would show it there as the film rightly depicts American health care as a joke and very sick.

                I just don't see the big deal, but Mr. Moore is thinks it's a bombshell.

                "Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes" -Marx

                by Jose Bidenio on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 06:40:44 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

      •  I'm trying to figure out if this diary (5+ / 0-)

        is trying to present Michael's grasp of irony or his ignorance or his bizarre hypocrisy.

        Since he never comments I doubt he cares to read anything here but his own words. But after his last diary and this response to it one would expect an iota of self awareness to show up in a diary he posts the next day.

        Which of the categories you list does Moore's last diary on Sweden fall into?

        I never heard a word about Sicko playing in Cuba until now. Conflating every individual cable written by every individual foreign service state department official into 'Uncle Sugar' as if our government is one homogeneous blob of coordinated public messaging through classified communications with itself, is propaganda.

        Unless Wikileaks is a government conspiracy intended to publicize and propagandize classified material into public messaging, I don't think the term applies to individual's intergovernmental. cable exchanges among millions.

        •  Hello. Thank you for injecting sanity. nt (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DollyMadison

          "Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes" -Marx

          by Jose Bidenio on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 07:53:18 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Viva Castrominism! (0+ / 0-)

            I just had a conversation last night, with shrink friend of mine who's working in a prison, about the impeccable attention paid to the inmates' health care.

            •  California's health care for state prisoners is (0+ / 0-)

              helping to bankrupt the state.  It's about $14K/prisoner.

              We should trade with Cuba, ship our prisoners there for lower health care and housing costs, and let Mr. Moore be the Warden.

              "Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes" -Marx

              by Jose Bidenio on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 08:16:14 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  What example should they follow? (0+ / 0-)

              Haiti?  Jamaica?  I suppose the Dominican Republic is decent enough, but they'd never be allowed to live like the Costa Ricans.

              A Catholic, Jew, Muslim and Buddhist walk into Al Aqsa Mosque. Buddhist immediately exclaims: "excuse me I appear to be in the wrong joke."

              by Salo on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 08:58:39 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Who? They? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                DollyMadison

                Referencing the Castro regime as "they", as in Cubans, makes no sense to me. Actually Central America is slowly following Costa Rica's lead.
                "..they'd never be allowed to live like the Costa Ricans." I don't get that statement either. Most of the world doesn't have the pleasure of living like the Swiss either. It's about what they should work toward. And Costa Rica is a pretty great model.

                I always wonder why they can't tap those volcanoes for energy.

                •  Cubans (0+ / 0-)

                  Are likely to remain subjected to some variety of banana republicanism for most of their existence. Ever since Columbus arrived that's the fate of the Caribbean.  

                  A Catholic, Jew, Muslim and Buddhist walk into Al Aqsa Mosque. Buddhist immediately exclaims: "excuse me I appear to be in the wrong joke."

                  by Salo on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 11:50:55 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

        •  From the Guardian (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          fisheye, Escamillo

          The film-maker said on his blog that the diplomatic cable, dated 31 January 2008, was "a stunning look at the Orwellian nature of how bureaucrats for the state spin their lies and try to recreate reality (I assume to placate their bosses and tell them what they want to hear)".

          But that's not what happened given the evidence we have.

          There's no evidence that any bureaucrat created that false meme that his movie was going to be banned in Cuba. It was quoting someone else who had said it. It was simply relaying the comments of other people.

          But Michael Moore either pretends that it was the comment of a bureaucrat, or he simply has reading comprehension problems!

          •  Again IOKIYMM. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DollyMadison

            He didn't question the veracity of this

            The confidential US memo claims that when the film was shown to a group of Cuban doctors, some became so "disturbed at the blatant misrepresentation of healthcare in Cuba that they left the room".

      •  Who sent the Cable to who in the Dept? (5+ / 0-)

        There are a lot of Bush era deadwood people clogging up the government seeing what they want to so and or telling higher ups what they want to hear...

        The blind cabling the obtuse and gullible is evidence too...

        Wikileaks not only exposes the truth but exposes lies too... and the mechanism and mindset that creates or perpetuates the lies and misinformation... also self deluded wishful thinkers.

        Pogo & Murphy's Law, every time. Also "Trust but verify" - St. Ronnie (hah...)

        by IreGyre on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 07:59:31 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Because if it was one big dump (17+ / 0-)

      Ot would be too much, too short.

      This way keeps them in the public sphere for longer than the usual newzcycle, and it makes it far easier to highlight some.

      Like this Cuba one.

      As for your comment about Cuba, it is funny, because so many of the pro insurance lobby call Canada's statistics lies as well.
      Everyone is lying except the US.....is that it?

      A Creative Revolution- - To revolt within society in order to make it a little better- Krishnamurti

      by pale cold on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 05:59:59 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  And after having our free knee surgeries (15+ / 0-)

        (5 weeks ago now and I'm going stir crazy) we crazy Canucks jet off to Cuba for mojitas!  Yes.

        Beautiful country, beautiful people.

        My whole family loves it there.

        "A Canadian is merely an unarmed American with health care." John Wing

        by marigold on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 06:14:29 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Of course your family loves Cuba. You are from (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Frisbeetarian, jconn

          Canada and vacation in warm, sunny Cuba at favorable exchange rates.

          What's not to love?

          But would you love it if you lived there year-round and earned $30/month?

          Don't get me wrong, I believe we should trade with Cuba as we do with China.  I still don't understand why we don't, but holding Cuba up as a paragon of basic human rights, lack of oppression, openness, freedom, and so forth is silly.

          And, what would Canada do if you had no oil to sell?  What happens to Canada when the world economies go Green and electric?  My guess is that you'd move to Cuba, year-round.

          "Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes" -Marx

          by Jose Bidenio on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 08:09:02 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Canada (5+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            conchita, Salo, JesseCW, wabird, Jose Bidenio

            And, what would Canada do if you had no oil to sell?  What happens to Canada when the world economies go Green and electric?  My guess is that you'd move to Cuba, year-round.

            That's right. Canada is just one huge blob of oil and when that's gone, we're done.

            Last one to leave, turn the Northern Lights off!

            "I have lived with several Zen masters -- all of them cats." - Eckhart Tolle

            by catnip on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 08:36:38 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  LOL...I was just teasing...a little bit. But... (0+ / 0-)

              Top Canadian Exports to America 2010  as of July.

                1. Crude oil ... US$20 billion, up 85.4% from 2010 (17.5% of Canadian exports to U.S.)
                2. Large passenger automobiles ... $10.8 billion, up 117.5% (9.5%)
                3. Natural gas ... $6.9 billion, up 6.4% (6%)
                4. Medium-sized passenger automobiles ... $3.8 billion, up 131.8% (3.3%)
                5. Petroleum excluding light oils ... $3.4 billion, up 90.8% (3%)
                6. Light oils ... $2.2 billion, up 75.9% (1.9%)
                7. Potassium chloride ... $1.4 billion, up 81.3% (1.2%)
                8. Medications excluding vaccines ... $1.3 billion, down 16.4% (1.1%)
                9. Non-monetary gold ... $1.2 billion, up 83.5% (1%)
               10. Coniferous wood ... $1.18 billion, up 59.5% (1%).

              I'm not sure why coal is not on that list b/c I thought you have a lot of that too.

              Suntan lotion/oil for trips to Cuba is missing too.  :P

              "Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes" -Marx

              by Jose Bidenio on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 08:57:44 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  But I know Canadians are smart, clever and (0+ / 0-)

              pretty.  You guys invented the Wonder Bra, after all.

              "Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes" -Marx

              by Jose Bidenio on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 09:04:37 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  Name a Carrib state that isn't (0+ / 0-)

            a den if iniquity.  Haiti isn't exactly an example i'd like Cuba to follow for example.  

            A Catholic, Jew, Muslim and Buddhist walk into Al Aqsa Mosque. Buddhist immediately exclaims: "excuse me I appear to be in the wrong joke."

            by Salo on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 08:56:16 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Dutch Antilles, Domincan Republic, Virgin (0+ / 0-)

              Islands, Bermuda, Bahamas, St. Kitts, etc.

              Democratic elections are a good place to start.

              But yeah, Haiti isn't so hot, but you probably picked the most corrupt Caribbean island to start.  And it's corrupt, in no small part, b/c of our corrupt influence over many years.

              "Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes" -Marx

              by Jose Bidenio on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 09:03:25 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  It's comparable in size to Cuba. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JesseCW

                St Kitts, Bermuda were or are  British colonies too. Cuba is a sort of Spanish American bastard child.

                And I'm not saying, nor was MM that Cuba is a paradise or desirable per se. He just pointed out that they punch well above their weight in the healthcare statistics.

                You read too much into it and obviously have an axe to grind.  

                A Catholic, Jew, Muslim and Buddhist walk into Al Aqsa Mosque. Buddhist immediately exclaims: "excuse me I appear to be in the wrong joke."

                by Salo on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 09:23:24 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

      •  No, everyone is lieing including the U.S. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DollyMadison, jconn

        and including Michael Moore. All you have to do is read his last diary to see why IOKIYMM. Maybe Moore thinks Castro's commie tyranny somehow represents self determination on the part of the Cuban people so he can extol it's virtues. Otherwise he's just playing the part of another liar lying at liars.

      •  Yeah, there is no difference (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jconn

        between Cuba's and Canada's medical reporting systems or the number of journalists locked up in both countries.

        Canada hasn't had a democratic election in 50 years.

        China continued to be world's worst jailer of journalists, a dishonor it has held for 10 consecutive years. Cuba, Burma, Eritrea, and Uzbekistan round out the top five jailers from among the 29 nations that imprison journalists. Each of the top five nations has persistently placed among the world's worst in detaining journalists.

        CPJ's 2008 prison census: Online and in jail

        But wait, Moore, Assange and their fans believe that mainstream American journalists are all horrible, so locking them up would improve reporting, right?

        Ahhh....I got it now, so China and Cuba have more honest and accurate reporting.

        LOL...you are goofball.

        "Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes" -Marx

        by Jose Bidenio on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 08:01:04 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  you can see the same studies from the UN. (0+ / 0-)

      To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men~~ Abraham Lincoln

      by Tanya on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 07:01:58 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I wouldn't say that this cable is "erroneous" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GrumpyOldGeek

      What happened is that one anecdote from the cable was not accurate.

      One person, quoted by the American official who created the email, said that Sicko was banned, but Sicko wasn't banned. If the cable accurately quotes what someone said, the cable isn't erroneous. What someone said was erroneous, and the cable accurately relays what they said.

      The cable wasn't trying to educate people on "facts" - it was trying to relay what some people in Cuba were saying.

      So one Cuban who alleged that Sicko was banned was wrong. The cable wasn't "erroneous". It's likely true that someone did say that Sicko was banned.

      So what?

      But I don't see why this is something which can be used to praise WikiLeaks, and that's my issue with this diary.

      The issue here isn't that someone told an anecdote about MM's movie that wasn't accurate. The issue here is that some people failed to use good reading comprehension and instead went with headlines and stories that distort what actually happened.

      Moore says that "WikiLeaks did an amazing thing". Nope.

      He claims that the person who created an email that included multiple stories intended to denigrate Cuba's Healthcare system made up that anecdote. But there's no evidence of that - the anecdote is not correct, but there's nothing that tells us that the person who wrote the email made up that allegation out of thin air.

      We've all seen how people believe something because someone else told them that. We have no idea why someone would have said that Sicko was banned when it really wasn't banned at all. But there's zero evidence that the false meme was created out of thin air by the email writer.

      •  Real journalists have multiple sources and check (0+ / 0-)

        the facts.

        This is evidence that Michael's hero is not such a hero after all. But poor Michael has to blame the nebulous government institution to keep his head from exploding.

        "All people are born alike - except Republicans and Democrats" - Groucho Marx

        by GrumpyOldGeek on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 02:18:29 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  And by the way (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TracieLynn, mkor7, JesseCW

    did you know that Chavez is a murderous dictator?

    •  I read that (6+ / 0-)

      somewhere.....

      "It takes two to lie. One to lie, one to hear it." Homer Simpson

      by Euroliberal on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 05:34:32 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Well, he does like to consolidate power... (0+ / 0-)

      And the rule by decree thing again for the next 18 months just in time to make sure that the new legislature with reduced majorities cannot hamper whatever he decides is right for Venezuela... at some point the apologists might decide that while he is not quite what the Bushites painted him, he is also not very tolerant of too much Democracy... He has backed down to some degree and accepted political defeats but the jury is still out on how far he will decide to go ultimately.

      Sure he is still dealing with a lot of wealth disparity and the plutocrats there.... But HE is deciding what is fair and where the lines should be drawn... and he keeps redrawing them to suit himself as the "protector" of the average Venezuelan. Eventually if not already he will be protecting himself and his core supporters above all else... getting anointed President for life will not be a surprise if he manages it. Who else can protect the Bolivarian revolution? And how else can he stay in power as the defects in his economic reforms erode even more sectors of the economy?

      Pogo & Murphy's Law, every time. Also "Trust but verify" - St. Ronnie (hah...)

      by IreGyre on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 08:10:58 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Just curious (0+ / 0-)

        Have you spent one moment in Venezuela?

        This is not a trick question, by the way.  And full disclosure - I have.

        If I show my support and enthusiasm for positive change, I create an environment that enables the change to be made even better.

        by Richard Cranium on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 03:42:35 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Definitions (9+ / 0-)

    Soldier - somebody sent abroad to die for his country

    Diplomat - somebody sent abroad to lie for his country

    "Israel was born out of Jewish terrorism." Sir Gerald Kaufman, British MP and son of Holocaust survivor.

    by Lib Dem FoP on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 05:15:21 AM PST

  •  No real journalists left. (21+ / 0-)

    The real question is, why didn't they call you for a comment before running the article.  Finding the stuff you pointed out on cuban internet sites may have been tricky, but I thought it was standard journalistic practice to call the subject or, in this case, the maker of the subject.

    Did they call you?  My guess is no.

  •  Cuban media reported on Sicko 2007 (16+ / 0-)

    It would be quite odd for it to be portrayed as a Cuban government crackdown when state and semi-state Cuban media had been reporting on the movie since 2007.

    From Juventud Rebelde, one of the publications most linked to the ruling party, this directed at youth:

    Lo que indigna al público de Sicko es la patente crueldad y la manifiesta injusticia del sistema norteamericano de salud.

    Sicko es un sonoro rebato a la acción. Pero no hay que olvidarse de los defensores del status quo. La historia prueba que son excelentes en cuanto a bloquear una reforma buscando vías para amedrentarnos. Esas tácticas han recurrido a menudo a afirmaciones traídas por los pelos sobre pretendidos peligros de los seguros públicos. En Sicko se muestra parte de una grabación que hizo Ronald Reagan para la American Medical Association, alertando de que una propuesta de programa de cobertura sanitaria para los ancianos —el programa conocido como Medicare— llevaría al totalitarismo.

    Precisamente ahora, dicho sea de paso, Medicare —que hizo un enorme bien sin propiciar una dictadura— está siendo socavado por la privatización.

  •  Makes me feel safer, (18+ / 0-)

    knowing these geniuses are protecting us from the seething Cuban masses and their health care.

    Keep on, Michael, just what you're doing.

  •  When I correspond with my (7+ / 0-)

    insurance people I call them fascists. For example, I say

    "Hello insurance fascist! I see you're raising my rates again this year even though I haven't had any accidents!"

    or

    "Hello third party fascists insurance investigator! No I'm not going to tell you my opinion of why my neck hurts or if I have a lawyer!"

    All things considered, how are Americans more informed than the North Koreans?

    •  that's easy... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lujane

      ...In America an American journalist can write about American waterboarding, American torture, American gulag archipelagos, American show trials, and American predator-droning unarmed civilians overseas, American war crimes and crimes against humanity and still live to tell the world about it.

      "I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast, for I intend to go in harm's way." John Paul Jones

      by ImpeachKingBushII on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 07:02:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, but whom do you believe? (0+ / 0-)

        This is about disinformation wars and coordinated leaks to keep everything in the grey. Obviously the right wing American politicians are winning. After Nixon we just assume they are corrupt and blindly go about our business, no?

        They told me Cuba hated Moore. And that was enough to keep me blindly accepting my insurance rate hikes. Mission Accomplished.

      •  The obvious answer is that ... (0+ / 0-)

        ... anyone who does investigative journalism that rubs powerful people the wrong way won't be on salary for news papers of record.   Any journo who want's to pay the bills works for a powerful faction in national or local power struggles.

        A Catholic, Jew, Muslim and Buddhist walk into Al Aqsa Mosque. Buddhist immediately exclaims: "excuse me I appear to be in the wrong joke."

        by Salo on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 09:04:07 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Is the takedown of Bank of America imminent? (11+ / 0-)

    Wikileaks tweets:

    Does your business do business with Bank of America? Our advise is to place your funds somewhere safer.

    Give them hell, wiki.

    Also, check out Larry Flynt:

    Here comes sunshine.

    by LodinLepp on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 06:07:47 AM PST

  •  Artforum does more fact checking than the news. (6+ / 0-)

    I recently had Artforum do an editorial fact check on an exhibit and I emerged thoroghly shAken by their grilling. A magazine obviously has more time than a paper, but all they need to do is call someone to check for veracity. But it was only about paintings.  

    Is state department supposed to be our  Minitru?

    A Catholic, Jew, Muslim and Buddhist walk into Al Aqsa Mosque. Buddhist immediately exclaims: "excuse me I appear to be in the wrong joke."

    by Salo on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 06:18:27 AM PST

  •  Viva information n/t (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    shpilk

    Bob Herbert article on Mississippi injustice. So Utterly Inhumane

    by niteskolar on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 06:20:12 AM PST

  •  This sounds exactly like what happened (15+ / 0-)

    with Iraqi ex-pats in the lead-up to the war. We paid them to create propaganda, which our own officials then breathlessly reported back to us as "intelligence" from anonymous sources, creating an echo chamber which, in the end, was nothing more than the Pentagon talking to itself. We see the same thing with Cuba and Venezuela.

    "I had seen the universe as it begins for all things. It was, in reality, a child's universe, a tiny and laughing universe." Loren Eiseley

    by cadejo4 on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 06:20:51 AM PST

  •  Congratulations, Mr. Moore (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nicolemm, Ice Blue, Calamity Jean, Joieau

    It must be very difficult for you not to gloat too much over this vindication. I know that because even though nothing whatsoever to do with SICKO beyond talking it up, it's difficult for me to refrain from gloating this morning on your behalf.

    Thank you, Mr. Moore, and thank you, too, Mr. Assange!

    Tax cuts for everybody, but no EXTRA tax cuts for the rich.

    by RJDixon74135 on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 06:26:20 AM PST

  •  Michael I know you never participate... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nicolemm, conchita, slatsg, Joieau

    ...in the your diary's threads. BUT. Your last few diaries have prompted me to ask this question: Michael Moore, in your own subjective opinion as a free-thinking, investigative journalist, do you think or find it more an accident, a coincidence or an act of war against free thought in America the untimely murders of four of the predominant, consummate movers and shakers of their time: JFK, MLK, RFK, and John Lennon? Or  do you find that premeditated murder is just an inherent "American value", having nothing to do with the political system eliminating any competition to the state propaganda line?

    Thank you. I enjoy your work. And I respect your guts. How easy in life we often confuse compromise with unconditional surrender, and call being too yellow to fight for your convictions "peace in our time".

    "I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast, for I intend to go in harm's way." John Paul Jones

    by ImpeachKingBushII on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 06:39:25 AM PST

  •  My other comment was Hr'd and was removed (1+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    jconn
    Hidden by:
    alpraz
    Only positive things can be said about Michael Moore here apparently.

    Glad this diary against censorship isn't hypocritical!

  •  I'm sure I'll get trollrated for saying this (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    twigg, fisheye, Huginn and Muninn, Joieau

    But don't you think it's a bit hypocritical to condemn the journalism in this case, and yet believe everything they print in other cases (like the Assange case)?  The Guardian is a source in both instances.

    Personally, I'm sick of TABLOID journalism - it's a bit-of-truth, a bit-of-speculation, and a bit-o-entertainment mixed together to sell stories.  The "FOX NEWS" plague has infested so much of journalism it's hard to know what to believe anymore.

  •  Here's where stuff like this is dangerous (10+ / 0-)

    A friend posted the link to the Guardian article and a comment gleefully accusing Michael Moore of being a liar.

    Then it goes viral and people say, 'that Michael Moore movie was banned in Cuba!' 'Their healthcare system sucks!' It's a further attempt to demonize their healthcare system just as forces here attempted to demonize healthcare in Canada and the UK. It's corrupt and contemptible what insurance companies will do to maintain their stranglehold on the citizens of this country.

    So I reluctantly posted a note that said, basically, you can gripe with the fact he highlighted the healthcare system in a communist country, but his movie was not banned.

    Sheesh.

    What one must, one can.

    by angstall on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 06:46:11 AM PST

  •  Way to go (0+ / 0-)

    Well done.

    DeFEUDIATE MY FSCKING AWESOME BLOG, KOSsacks!!!

    Peace?

    by aoeu on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 06:55:32 AM PST

  •  Another diary so soon? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GrumpyOldGeek

    That was quick.   Had to erase that memory of yesterday's disaster "Sweden Sucks" diary in a hurry?

    Nice to have you around, but you could comment once in awhile.

  •  My issue isn't with your movies (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bill W, fou, jconn
    your movies are terrific, and you have shown yourself to be a better journalist than most.

    Here is my issue Mr. Moore, my comment from yesterday. When are you coming out of your Rape Apologist Tower and down to the lobby to talk to anti-rape activists, Sir?

    Mr Moore:

    As a woman who endured and still suffers from her sexual assaults, your campaign is an affront to me.   Sady from Tigerbeatdown says it much better than I ever can:

    "But hey, Michael, you know what exposes a Big Lie, a lot of the time? Rape allegations. You know who knows all about big lies? Women who have been raped. Raped, sometimes, by powerful men within our communities; raped by men who were beloved and supported by those communities; raped by our fellow progressives. And we didn't report, because we knew no-one would believe us; because we knew we'd be shamed and smeared and lied about and harassed until we agreed to go away and let the Big Lie continue to exist. You want to employ the phrase "secrets killed them?" Women who have been raped know all about how secrets can kill people. And how, often, it's telling the secret that gets you killed. Ask the women who are pressing these charges -- their names have been so widely leaked, in one case by your fellow "progressive" media dudebro, Keith Olbermann, that it is possible to find their home addresses, their personal blogs and social media accounts, and to track their activities and personal lives. I'd imagine that they are very much in fear for their lives, due in large part to people like you, Michael Moore, who are insisting that they should not be believed."

    http://tigerbeatdown.com/....

    Please read the whole post, Mr. Moore.

    As Sady said, you were a personal hero to me, Mr. Moore. I worked in Lake Forest area, and CHEERED when you stormed the beach on TV Nation. I passionately defend you, and your work all the time.   This, these actions you have taken in defense of someone who is trying to escape being tried in a court of law, where as you say, "convictions are low" and where you make the women who make these accusations sound stupid for being "pawns of teh evil governments who hide secrets", they break my heart Mr. Moore.

    I am standing outside the Rape Apologist Tower Mr. Moore, just like you did in Roger And Me to GM. I am standing with Sady and other women, waiting for you to come down from your office suite and explain and make this right.  

    When will you do so, Sir?

    •  I was molested as a child by my father, (7+ / 0-)

      my brother, and a boy at school.  I carry the scars from that experience 30-40 years later.  There, I have some sort of bona fides before I say this...

      Yet, I am able to stand back and look at the possibility that the charges against JA may be trumped up. I'm not so tied up in my identity as a survivor that all that has to happen is someone get accused of rape and I get all OMG over it. What better handle to emotionally manipulate the public, especially members of the public who bear scars like you and I, into hating this guy and believing all the other bad stuff the government and the banks want you and I to believe about him.

      I'm not saying it is completely impossible that he did something wrong, but even my limited knowledge of history leads me to say that it's just a tiny bit convenient that someone who's pissed off The Powers That Be just happens to be a rapist.

      This woman doesn't think Michael Moore owes you or me anything. So don't presume to speak for all sexual abuse survivors, thanks.

      Feingold needs a "I'm not primarying Obama, you dumb fucks!" t-shirt.

      by zett on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 07:26:31 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I think you are missing the point (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      nicolemm, conchita, KateCrashes, kurt, JesseCW

      and you also have my deepest sympathy for your ordeal.

      The point about the rape allegation is a simple one.

      All rapists should be caught and punished. There are no exceptions.

      However, when a government uses allegations of sex crimes to pursue  someone for political reasons, then women are disadvantaged. The two alleged accusers in this case are further abused by a legal system that is using them for it's own ends, and that was pointed out.

      We do not know the truth of the alleged offences, but we do know that justice is not being served by this farce, and women everywhere should get mad about that, not mad at the guy who pointed it out.

      just my 2c

      We do not forgive our candidates their humanity, therefore we compel them to appear inhuman

      by twigg on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 09:21:40 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Take Wikileaks with a grain of salt (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GrumpyOldGeek

    Given the nature of the information, and also given the fact that to some extent it is being doled out to us through a wikileaks/journalistic filter, it pays to verify independently what we receive from wikileaks (or from any other single source) before accepting it blindly. (Just as the diary stated for the particular piece of information about Cuba banning Sicko.)

  •  What a hoot - Graham Greene would laugh (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KateCrashes, Salo, Anak

    out loud at our man in Havana  spinning such tripe in cable back to the State Department.

  •  Great diary... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CIndyCasella
    ...this diary is a typical top shelf Michael Moore diary.

    Yet I fail to share the astonishment that our government constantly lies to us when we are currently underfoot of a president that lied to us about how he would deal with tax cuts for the rich.

    The irony in WikiLeaks is I'm sure, if given the choice, Obama would rather we find out about his tax cuts for the rich lie via a WikiLeaks documents dump that finding out by merely watching him lie to our faces on public, national TV.

    I'm sure all our other government liars would prefer the WikiLeaks route if given the choice.

    Dear Jon Stewart: Your fall has been assiduous. You are now the left's version of Dennis Miller.

    by wyvern on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 07:29:57 AM PST

  •  Nice rebuttal (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Salo, kurt, Anak

    but it does bring up one tricky question...how many of the wikileaks cables are just plain wrong?  

    "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

    by Empty Vessel on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 08:02:42 AM PST

    •  That's why we should be reading them (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      conchita, KateCrashes, JesseCW

      closely.

      Check out this quote about Cuba, for instance. Why would they lie about this? From 09HAVANA221:

      Despite claims that they [the dissidents] represent "thousands of Cubans," we see little evidence of such support, at least from the admittedly limited vantage point we have in Havana.

      For the US State Department and its allies, it is all a ruthless chess game, and every pawn matters. - Mark Weisbrot

      by Anak on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 09:30:44 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Damn. You mean I shouldn't believe everything (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KateCrashes, twigg

    posted on the internet about you? Bummer.

  •  The Cuban govt is very intelligent (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nicolemm, conchita, Salo, Lujane, JesseCW

    They know that the movie is an indictment of our healthcare system, and they're proud of ours. The inhumanity shown in the film would especially appall Cubans, who really value being humane.

    I am wondering if that cable is another example of State Dept sycophants telling the WH and CIA what they want to hear, instead of the truth.

    I was in Cuba 14 years ago at the height of the Special period, and even though everyone was hating life, they all wanted everything to be more humane.

    This movie would also help stop people from leaving on rafts illegally too, since it removes a lot of the delusions many Cubans have about this country.

  •  Thank you, Michael Moore, patriot hero! n/t (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nicolemm, betson08, Mr SeeMore

    Information is the currency of democracy. ~Thomas Jefferson

    by CIndyCasella on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 08:31:09 AM PST

  •  Mr. Moore... why did you hide the real conditions (7+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lisa, conchita, SneakySnu, FG, Lujane, Escamillo, jconn

    of the hospitals were cubans (not the tourists or high ranking officials) get thier care.

    Explain that.

    I know the abysmal state of hospitals for regular Cubans.  My husband is Cuban and I have been to Cuba a number of times on family visits, members of the family and friends there work in the medical system as well as use it.  What has been criticized about your film, that it painted a rosy picture and that it only showed the facilities that foriegners and govt officials use and which are off limits to regular cubans is TRUE.  

    Why don't you address that?

    This is why, in spite of my sympathy for your political views which I share, nonetheless I take your writing with a grain of salt ever since seeing SICKO.
    I was disappointed in you and felt that you took the word of the Cuban govt, accepted what they allowed you to see and film, and did not do your due diligince by speaking with regular Cuban people whom I promise you would have set you straight on the real state of the Cuban health system.

    "Why would our government connect an extension of unemployment benefits with tax cuts for billionaires?" One Pissed Off Liberal

    by Frisbeetarian on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 08:39:07 AM PST

    •  No that isn't what the Cuban example was to show (6+ / 0-)

      Cuba is admittedly a poor little country as the documentary showed.  However by every single accepted index that measures performance in the healthcare sector it outperforms what you might expect from them as a  poor Carrib state.  

      Your example is simply dishonest.  

      A Catholic, Jew, Muslim and Buddhist walk into Al Aqsa Mosque. Buddhist immediately exclaims: "excuse me I appear to be in the wrong joke."

      by Salo on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 08:51:15 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Don't try this at home (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        conchita

        Cubans can't shoot each other like we do.  Guns are illegal and there's no border you can smuggle them over like in Mexico.

        It's hard to pick up Type II Diabetes in a country with food rationing.  It's easy to get enough exercise where the only cars are Studebakers or Ladas.

        No High Fructose Corn Syrup in Cuba, either.  As long as we have Iowa Caucuses, we will have lots of HFCS here.

        Street drugs don't cause much of a problem there, either.  I'm not sure we want to take the Cuban approach on that issue.

        •  looking at Haiti (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SLKRR, conchita, betson08, JesseCW, Anak

          i'm not sure I want the Cato institute running the show either.  Also I never saw Moore advocate America adopt the Cuban political system. It was one example of a third world state that accomplished an outcome that punched above its own weight in life expectancy stats.

          The example of France, Canada and the UK were far more prominent if you actually watched the movie.

          Utahrd, the segment on Cuba was put there to show up how 9/11 responders were not treated well in the US. This was coupled with a quick analysis of comparable life expectancy figures in the US/Cuba (first world/third world) and then it was off to France and the UK to look at semi-civilized first world healthcare systems.

          How dumb are you yanks?

          A Catholic, Jew, Muslim and Buddhist walk into Al Aqsa Mosque. Buddhist immediately exclaims: "excuse me I appear to be in the wrong joke."

          by Salo on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 09:11:05 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Follow the money (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            conchita, jconn

            How does Cuba pay for this health care?  At least some of it has been paid for by turning Varadero over to some very Capitalist hotel companies who sell rooms to Canadians and Europeans.  I don't think that the US could follow this financial model very well.

            Minnesota, Utah & Hawaii compare pretty well with Cuba.  I don't think that Mississippi or the District of Colombia do as well.

            Florida's life expectancy statistics should be pretty good, when you consider all the Cubans that moved there.  But I don't think that this is the case.

            Yes, Yanks are dumb.  You have to wonder why Cubans are willing to risk being eaten by sharks to move here.

            Haiti is not the example that Cato likes to use.  Hong Kong is.

            •  On what planet... (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              SLKRR, betson08, Anak, shenderson

              ... does that address my point about the flim using Cuba as an an example of a third world state punch above its weight in healthcare stats?

              I might point out to you that there is a human stream flowing form poor states all across the world to enter nations like the UK, France and yes Canada as well as the US. The first three of which,  Moore actually suggested as models to copy in the US.

              Yep you guys are pretty stupid.

              A Catholic, Jew, Muslim and Buddhist walk into Al Aqsa Mosque. Buddhist immediately exclaims: "excuse me I appear to be in the wrong joke."

              by Salo on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 09:38:07 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  Cuba has an apartheid medical system (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            SneakySnu, Utahrd, Escamillo

            where foriegn tourists, diplomats, and high ranking government and military officials have access to the best facilities like the one shown in SICKO the rest of cuban people are prohibited from using.

            Read the entire cable HERE, it contains a very detailed description of comparisons between the conditions of Cuban hospitals that coincide with what I have been told for years by my husband's family and our friends in Cuba about thier first hand experiances.

            Cuba no es facil.

            "Why would our government connect an extension of unemployment benefits with tax cuts for billionaires?" One Pissed Off Liberal

            by Frisbeetarian on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 10:52:05 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I have seen this myself (0+ / 0-)

              But if you see the post above, we're reminded that Moore wasn't trying to make that point. He was showing how bad 9/11 responders have been treated here, and that they would be treated better even in a communist country. True, he doesn't show treatment for the masses, but I would argue that wasn't his point.

              •  Huh? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Frisbeetarian

                But if you see the post above, we're reminded that Moore wasn't trying to make that point. He was showing how bad 9/11 responders have been treated here, and that they would be treated better even in a communist country. True, he doesn't show treatment for the masses, but I would argue that wasn't his point.

                You just agreed that the masses in Cuba are not treated well in Cuba's medical system. So if the 9/11 responders were Cuban, logically, they probably wouldn't have gotten very good treatment.  The only reason why the responders received good treatment was due to their special status as foreigners that could pay in dollars and because it'd be a propaganda coup.

        •  HFCS, doubt you're right on that (0+ / 0-)

          Lots of things get around the embargo, including sodas from the U.S. It all depends on the which country the soda is made in. And, there has been agricultural trade for a few years now, due to a push by the ag states.

        •  street crime is not reported on in cuban press (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Utahrd

          There are plenty of homicides, drugs (lol.. lots!), robberies, home burglaries, LOTS of diabetes (OMG I mean lots... and the amputees to prove it), but you are right about the lack of transportation imposed exercise... and stress related illness, "nervios" is so common I think half the people I know in Cuba suffer "nervios", plus abuse of mood pharmacuticals (trafficing pills, mothers little helpers, is a thriving black market business in Cuba).

          How do I know this you might ask?  Because I have many family and friends in Cuba, I've been there often, and I've experianced daily Cuban life, and I'm fluent in spanish and been in untold numerous conversations in Cuba where these are all common topics.

          But you will almost never read about it in the official government newspapers or tv news.   And all the newspapers and tv news is government, there is no freedom of press at all in Cuba.  So the world hears only the rosy picture unless you go to the blogs or know people in Cuba enough that they trust you and speak openly to you.

          "Why would our government connect an extension of unemployment benefits with tax cuts for billionaires?" One Pissed Off Liberal

          by Frisbeetarian on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 04:45:44 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  the example is (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Frisbeetarian

        "dishonest"? The conclusion based on multiple personal experiences and firsthand accounts is somehow less real than Michael Moore literally showboating into Cuba?

        •  Do you actually contend (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          betson08

          That Cuban healthcare compares unfavouravourably to comparable third world states?

          I just want to clarify that before I laugh my arse off.

          A Catholic, Jew, Muslim and Buddhist walk into Al Aqsa Mosque. Buddhist immediately exclaims: "excuse me I appear to be in the wrong joke."

          by Salo on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 11:47:40 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Go to the public hospitals in Honduras (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Salo, Billdbq

            for example. We supported the coup there, so they must be doing something right, right?

            I've been in public hospitals in both Cuba and Honduras, and Honduran hospitals are totally sickening. In Cuba, yes, they're poor, but not dirty with blood in the hallways. And if you think workers are disenchanted in Cuba, you should see hospital workers in Honduras.

            There is complete medical apartheid in Honduras as well as far as the hospital system goes, and the rural health clinics suck. You can get a wonderful clean hospital, like I did when I became deathly ill with food poisoning as a Peace Corps Volunteer, if you are an expat, a business person, or a tourist with money. But that kind of hospital wasn't accessible to the Honduran general public, which is impoverished. A friend got severely burned, for example, and went to the hospital in Tela. The Peace Corps nurse ordered him out of there asap, and he took a taxi to a clean hospital. That is the fact of life in Honduras.

            •  Healthcare is one thing (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Billdbq

              I'm fairly certain Cuba has actually got right. Or at least as right as a populous central American state will ever get it.

              A Catholic, Jew, Muslim and Buddhist walk into Al Aqsa Mosque. Buddhist immediately exclaims: "excuse me I appear to be in the wrong joke."

              by Salo on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 12:02:38 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  Not dishonest (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SneakySnu, Frisbeetarian

        I have seen the conditions in the hospitals for regular Cubans - how would you like to bring your own sheets, clean out your own bathroom, and take a bucket of water for a patient because of shortages? A friend of mine nearly died after surgery from an infection because of a lack of antibiotics. Her doctor saved her by taking the antibiotics away from another patient.

        I do agree with your point that Moore was trying to make a different kind of point, but Frisbeetarian is correct about those conditions, and is correct to point them out.

        The other thing is that they have these higher health indicators because of COMMUNITY and preventive medicine. It's amazing. There is a doctor on every corner. They are underpaid and many of them are disenchanted, but still, they provide service.

        Also, what's true about Cuba is that the country and government are filled with so many contradictions that you can easily get confused. One thing seems clear, universal medicine, and then it's contradicted by something else, better not get sick enough to get to the hospital, and then something else, amazing prenatal monitoring. It's really difficult to make a strong conclusion about the medical system because of that.

      •  Moore's NYC First Responders wept for joy (0+ / 0-)

        at the superior health treatment they received in Havana.  These were not actors, eh Michael.

        Meanwhile, we in the US weep for our inability to pay for our increasingly expensive health insurance.  Our insurer, Medical Associates of Dubuque, informed us that they plan to increase our costs by 10% for 2011.  This is after we Teamsters had taken a wage freeze and 6 unpaid furlough days during this past year.

        How are we supposed to pay for this exorbitant increase?

        Sicko covers many aspects of delivery of health care.  It's a great documentary; I just feel embarrassed as an American when I watch it.

        Tipped and rec'd.

        Strength through Peace.

        by Billdbq on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 12:28:09 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Mr. Moore, I too want nationalized healthcare but (0+ / 0-)

      too make the case for it would you have gone to apartheid era South Africa and filmed in whites only hospital facilities without mentioning the conditions in hospitals that served non-whites?

      Yoani Sanchez Gen Y: Hospitals, you bring everything.

      "Why would our government connect an extension of unemployment benefits with tax cuts for billionaires?" One Pissed Off Liberal

      by Frisbeetarian on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 10:33:36 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Have you seen other medical systems in the region (0+ / 0-)

        They are just the same - the rich get nice clean hospitals, and the poor get filthy poor ones. I would bet Costa Rica is an exception, but wouldn't count on it.

        In that regard, the only difference with Cuba is just the level of propaganda, not the facts on the ground throughout the region.

        •  betson08... this is a very good question (0+ / 0-)

          and i've not seen honduras but i have seen (and been treated in) oaxaca facilities.

          I've seen poverty in 3rd world countries and hear you.  It is a sort of economic aparthaid in these other countries.  But cuba its something else, something extremely creepy to any progressive, anyone who has lived in a democratic society, its one of the most deeply controlled, totalitarian societies in the world.  Everything depends on the most detailed control of a micromanaging and corrupt government.  As a leftist, progressive all my life I considered anti communist propaganda about cuba as, well, propaganda.  And now I have seen for myself and found out it was not propaganda at all, it is the truth.

          Being denied because of lack of money is not good.  Being denied because of who you are is not only not good, it insults ones dignity in a different way, the way I imagine aparthaid insulted black south africans.

          I remember my husband was working in a show at a hotel one night in havana (hes a musician).  We arrived early together before the rest of the group and went to go though the front door.  The hotel guard would not let him pass, only I as a foriegner would be allowed through the front door.  We said screw it and went off to wait and have a beer.  Coming back we saw the group out back waiting to go into the hotel through the rear entrance.  So we went to go with them.  This time the guard at the rear door said they could go through but I could not.  I was foriegn and would have to go through the front door without them.

          My husband blew his top and refused to play in the hotel that night.  The technical director of the show said it was fine if he didn't play, he was cuban too and he understood.

          "Why would our government connect an extension of unemployment benefits with tax cuts for billionaires?" One Pissed Off Liberal

          by Frisbeetarian on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 08:24:31 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Also... the cable does not say sicko was banned (0+ / 0-)

      it said a redacted person XXXXXXXXXX stated it was banned.  This probably refers to an article written by Dr. Darsi Ferrer in 2007 distributed by the Comision de Derechos Humanos.  Dr Ferrer, a respected and well known dissident in cuba, wrote an article saying that SICKO would probably be banned and that is the only reference about the subject of banning out there.

      As progressives who are supposed to focus on human rights, why does Cuba so often get a pass from us?  The island is a private slave labor plantation run by and for the Castro family.  Why is Michael Moore, normally a man who stands up against such things is so uncritical of injustice, exploitation and totalitarianism when it is Cuba style?

      "Why would our government connect an extension of unemployment benefits with tax cuts for billionaires?" One Pissed Off Liberal

      by Frisbeetarian on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 11:26:29 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  OK the reason it does (0+ / 0-)

        is this hyperbole:

        a private slave labor plantation run by and for the Castro family.

        Nobody in their right mind would react positively to a statement like that, especially someone who had visited the country.

        •  its not hyperbole... its the only metaphor (0+ / 0-)

          i've been able to come up with that explains a system where a citizen has to ask permission to leave, and most often that permission is denied. And for certain professions like medical you have to wait for years to even be considered for permission to leave.  And where doctors, nurses, teachers, artists, and sports proffessionals are sent out on government missions (the only way they can travel out of cuba) and any earnings, prize money, etc. is paid not to them but to the government.  Where people make on average less than $20/MONTH, even brain surgeons make $25 a month, where you can't buy a LADA car unless you have certain position in the government, where you home is never your own, where you need permission (like my husbands mother did) for you own son to move back and live at home (it took a year of negotiating and bribes to finally get govt. permission to have her own son live with her), where the govt. denies access to regular cubans to go to certain national tourist beaches, hotels, theaters, sports events etc that are for tourists and officials only.  Where students are put through embarrasing "criticism self criticism sessions" by teachers and class like in the old Maoist days, where everything you must do to actually help the family to survive and eat is illegal be it selling candy, oranges, spare parts, concrete, anything and all is punishable by heavy fines and jail.  Having beef can put you in jail for 10 years, getting caught with lobster will get you 20 years.  You can go to jail for the crime of "dangerousness" which is the crime of seeming like someday you might commit a crime, not that you actually did.  Where police (which are EVERYWHERE) can stop and look through your backpack or bag (which they do ALL THE TIME) where a grandmother gets 5 years in jail for carrying too many eggs to the bustop.... I can go on and on and on and on.

          How do I know this?  I know this because I know people personally that these things and more have happened to.

          Also they really really do listen and snoop on you.  Your phone calls are actually monitored.  This is TRUE.  Ask any cuban in cuba, if they trust you they will tell you it is so.  And children are really taught in school to report on thier parents... I never thought these things were true before I experianced cuba first hand.  I thought it was exaggerated propaganda.  I will tell you from the heart and swear to you that yes, this is what goes on in Fidel's cuba.

          Why Mr. Moore does this not concern or bother you.  Why do you focus on justifying the totalitarian regime and painting a pretty picture of it, and hanging out on trips with them, swallowing whatever they choose to let you see and hear?  

          Its ironical that you balk and become upset if someone thought you movie was banned in Cuba.  I tell you this, you should be so honored as to join the ranks of those who have been censored by the Castro government.  Don't you understand that?

          "Why would our government connect an extension of unemployment benefits with tax cuts for billionaires?" One Pissed Off Liberal

          by Frisbeetarian on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 05:10:39 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  which begs the question... (5+ / 0-)

    If it was supposedly public knowledge that the movie was banned in Cuba, why was that memo "classified"?

    "I have lived with several Zen masters -- all of them cats." - Eckhart Tolle

    by catnip on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 08:42:14 AM PST

    •  If it bleeds, it leads (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      defluxion10, kurt, Calamity Jean

      If you're a Bush administration US bureaucrat in Cuba, what do you do all day?

      Do you work yourself half to death looking for useful information?

      Or do you spend all day in Varadero, checking to see if any of the topless European girls are really Al Qaeda spies and then make stuff up at night that your bosses want to hear?

  •  Its a stupid law. (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nicolemm, Fishgrease, conchita, betson08, Snud

    From a stupid time. I could go on and on and on about mccarthyism, anti-evveryone americanism, etc. But its a waste of time:

    Our biggest trading partner is CHINA. A strange mix of communism and free market capitalism that denies this, but it is the case.

    I would LOVE for someone to give me a grand reason why we can trade with China, one of only like..two nations that realisticly might be able to stand up against the US's second strike capability, and not Cuba.

    because..fuck you cuba? I dont know. I was born in the late 80s, this whole thing seems really stupid to me.

    And When the Truth Finally Dawns: It dawns in fire! But, There's one they fear. In their tongue, he's Dovahkiin: Dragon Born!

    by kamrom on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 08:44:17 AM PST

  •  Dude, you are right on. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nicolemm, betson08

    Your footsteps are too big, your tongue too sharp and you scare the MSM to itty bitty pieces.

  •  Actually... (6+ / 0-)

    ... they can have it both ways (attacking both for having your movie played and not played).

    The Republican's embraced 1984 and doublethink as an instruction manual as opposed to a warning years ago.

    The inadequate is the enemy of the necessary.

    by JRandomPoster on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 09:33:43 AM PST

  •  You rock, you stood where others (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nicolemm, Richard Cranium, JesseCW

    feared to tread and in doing so provided those that sacrificed their health to save others with some succor.

  •  Michael! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nicolemm, betson08, ceebee7

    Wikileaks rules.  Thank you for bailing out Mr. Assange.  I am convinced he is being persecuted via pressure from our govt.

    "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Rianne Eisler

    by noofsh on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 10:19:37 AM PST

  •  Bank Of America (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nicolemm, defluxion10, betson08

    I just cancelled my credit card with Bank of America and told them ( because they asked ) that it was because they have decided to no longer process payments to Wikileaks.  The operator I spoke with hadn't heard of that reason yet.  I suggest that anyone who can, call the number on the back of your Bank of America credit card and cancel your account.

    God gave you free will to define God, use it to make the best God that you can.

    by Dotty Gale on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 11:22:21 AM PST

  •  Again, Wikileaks simply reveals the lies (7+ / 0-)

    of propaganda, and does the work that journalists should have done.

    No wonder corporate media is conducting a character assassination campaign against all things Wikileaks. Like the criminals uncovered in the stories, the ones that serve with titles in Washington DC, in London, in Stockholm,
    they are embarrassed. Airing out the dirty laundry that the corporate media has learned to hide, justification for a media 'shoot to kill the reputation' order.

    I'm surprised that we haven't heard Assange eats live children yet.

    Obama/Democrats: The Earth is round. Republicans: No! it's flat!
    The compromise: The Earth is a triangle.

    by shpilk on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 11:31:40 AM PST

    •  Indeed... Don't kill the messenger! (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      nicolemm, defluxion10, Salo, Billdbq

      I am continually amazed (perhaps naive?) that 99.99% of the energy around Wikileaks is outrage that Wikileaks did what it did, and .01% is outrage about the CONTENT of Wikileaks' leaks... Namely, that America is corrupt beyond description... and the corporate powers in charge of government remain largely anonymous.

      As the 4th Estate again rolls over in its grave...

      Kick apart the structures - Seth

      by ceebee7 on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 12:05:54 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The irony is rich indeed. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    defluxion10, Billdbq

    Americans are actively misinformed regarding a claim that citizens of Cuba are not given the facts.  Yikes!

    Those health statistics for Cuba are all the more impressive in light of the diet of the average Cuban, which is very low in protein and in calories.

    How many hours did Scooter Libby spend in solitary confinement?

    by geomoo on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 12:21:38 PM PST

  •  Wow on the Guardian article (0+ / 0-)

    Honestly, I'm surprised.

    Hopefully this will be an experience they take to heart.

    This health care system is a moral atrocity. Dr. Ralphdog

    by AllisonInSeattle on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 12:29:17 PM PST

  •  Sounds like they provided as much dilegence (0+ / 0-)

    to the story as you did in reporting the reality of health care in Cuba. Or that you did in reporting the nature of this cable.

  •  This is.... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dave925, Situational Lefty

    mind-blowing. Thanks for filling us in, Michael. Truly fascinating media fail.

    "There has always been, and there is now, a profound conflict of interest between the people and the government of the United States." -- Howard Zinn

    by ZhenRen on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 01:20:41 PM PST

    •  You can't say Media (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ZhenRen

      without saying "Fail", the two words have become synonymous.

      Turn all that shit off, it's nothing but crude propaganda and false framing designed to literally brainwash the viewers into a controllable state of mind(lessness).

      "The rich will strive to establish their dominion and enslave the rest. They always did... they always will. . ." Governeur Morris

      by Dave925 on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 02:02:46 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I don't even bother (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dave925

    with the traditional media in the US anymore.  Despite occasional nuggets of truth (ie., Paul Krugman at NYT) most of the rest is just too fucking lazy to bother doing anything other than he-said she-said style gossip or just strait up stenography.  
    Congrats on being smeared again by the powers that be, just goes to show that you are doing something correctly.  Please, make the fuckers squirm some more in the not too distant future.

    •  During the Reign of St Ronnie (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      brasilaaron

      The State Media Corporate media became so repugnant to me, I turned it off and haven't returned. I stuck with my 40 year subscription to the LA Times until 2005 when they added one too many fascist stooges to their Op-Ed stable then, without a second thought I gave them the hook too. Fuckers.

      I get all the news I need at sites like DKos. It's a no-brainer.

      "The rich will strive to establish their dominion and enslave the rest. They always did... they always will. . ." Governeur Morris

      by Dave925 on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 02:06:04 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  So Michael's hero released a lie, eh? (2+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    Glinda, dantrotheplanetman
    Hidden by:
    Mr SeeMore

    The assumption that leaking low-level state department cables is exposing the truth doesn't seem to be working out for Michael.

    This one incorrect cable is now THE BIG LIE by our evil and corrupt government and it's all PROOF that the world is out to get Michael, somehow. Good luck resolving this disconnect.

    The first batch of WikiCrap, the low-level military field reports, were immediately seen to be inaccurate and conflicting. Some were easy to prove as completely wrong.

    There has been no fact checking or secondary sources of the things that Assange has released. This stuff isn't reliable. Assuming it's the 'truth' is not wise.

    But Michael's hero can't possibly be passing garbage along. Or can he? It seems that he just did.

    Methinks that Michael just showed us that this stuff can't be taken as truth.

    "All people are born alike - except Republicans and Democrats" - Groucho Marx

    by GrumpyOldGeek on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 02:09:44 PM PST

    •  You call the video of murders by the helicopter (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Anak

      gunship inaccurate?!? Hide rate for parroting wingnuts. Released Video by Wikileaks of Reuters journalists being murdered.

      The first batch of WikiCrap, the low-level military field reports, were immediately seen to be inaccurate and conflicting. Some were easy to prove as completely wrong.

      "We are a Plutocracy, we ought to face it. We need, desperately, to find new ways to hear independent voices & points of view" Ramsey Clark, US AG

      by Mr SeeMore on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 02:51:07 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The helicopter images were accurate (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        GrumpyOldGeek

        ...but the interpretations of what they mean can differ.  As the US military suggested, they are just a snapshot in terms of the whole picture of what was occuring during that incident.  Is it a war crime if the US military on scene believed they were under attack by insurgents?  In any war - and these situations go back thousands of years - if one side uses civilians to blend in or as shields, then tragedies become inevitable.

        I opposed the Bush war on Iraq.  But I think our military there is faced with a very difficult job and they deserve the benefit of the doubt all other things being equal.  When crimes are committed, prosecute.  But we should not jump to conclusions on combat videos.  Combat is a horror by nature.  It is the place where the most primal and atavistic of human instincts come into play - kill or be killed.  

        If the US pilots in that helicopter tape had guessed wrong, and their next sight was a RPG heading towards their aircraft, then the result would be a funeral for them and their comrades.

        •  I get an HR based on something I didn't say? (0+ / 0-)

          It's not you who tossed the donut my way upthread, obviously.

          I'm just expressing my astonishment and being left somewhat speechless with this nonsense.

          And it's because I'm parroting wingnuts?

          I agree with your response.
          You seem to be one of too few sane voices tonight.

          "All people are born alike - except Republicans and Democrats" - Groucho Marx

          by GrumpyOldGeek on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 10:20:00 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Low-level field reports (0+ / 0-)

        I said nothing about anything else. You did as a strraw man argument out of context.

        "All people are born alike - except Republicans and Democrats" - Groucho Marx

        by GrumpyOldGeek on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 04:29:15 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  You make an interesting point (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GrumpyOldGeek

      ...which is why, I think, the Wikileaks initial furor is beginning to die down.

      These cables are not like scientific tests.  They are best-guesses.  If you look at the language of a typical diplomatic report, it is also heavily caveated - the classic sign of uncertainty.

      Many times this is inevitable or inescapable.  In many countries, the diplomats ability to circulate is limited.  Or regimes heavily control information.  Or the average citizen won't speak their mind for fear of being seen as a dissident.  Or the regime or other intelligence services feed disinformation.  In fact, on hot topics almost everyone, from human rights groups to political parties, has an interest in feeding information to the Embassy that slants or suits their goals.  Big business and corporations with vested economic goals join the fun.  How to wade through all of this?  In the end, what appears in the cables is a (hopefully) best effort shot at approximating the truth.

      This is why I think the Wiki furor will die down.  Number one, these were not the "crown jewels" of the most secret cables - apparently Manning didn't have access to those.  The diplomatic reporting, while interesting, is not necessarily accurate.

      Hence the situation here.  You have many Wikileaks supporters hanging on the every word of some cable reporting, because the diplomat is reporting in a way that supports a criticism they have of US policy.  E.g., if the US is claiming we have a rosy situation in Afghanistan, but behind the scenes reports indicate things are more dire, it is trumpeted as a "lie".  There is no attempt to determine whether the reporting is accurate or not, or represents a consensus.  Because it agrees with your views, it must be true.  

      However, if, as here, someone like Michael Moore disagrees with the reporting conclusion, then it is attacked.  Fair enough.  I haven't seen Sicko, so I can't comment on the substance here one way or another.

      But it has furthered my conclusion that I, and many others, are overeacting to the release of these cables.  It is becoming clear that they represent basically the opinions of various diplomats.  They are accurate as to the views of these individuals.  But they are the sausage fed into the government decision machine.  The cables reporting electoral fraud in country X, for example, don't necessarily mean we end up opposing that regime.  Likewise, if we report a free and fair election for, say, Hamas, that doesn't end up meaning this will affect our policy of antagonism towards them.

      This should give pause to anyone who jumps on a particular cable and brandishes it as evidence of this or that.  As this Cuba cable disagreement shows, much of what is coming out is subject to dispute.  On some of these issues, we are kidding ourselves that anyone really knows what's going on.  Or truth depends on where you sit.

      •  Much of what you say is true (0+ / 0-)

        about the cables being reports that rely on other people's reports, etc, etc.

        But some particular cables are quite clear, for example the one that investigated and assesed the coup in Honduras. Their report back to Washington was that it was illegal. Publically, however, the administration didn't tell us this, and hence allowed the coup to fulfill it's mission.

        In addition, that was one cable of many that show that the US position towards Latin America has not changed under Obama. When I voted for him I wondered with optimism: Will he try a new approach to Chávez and Evo? Will he lift the Cuban embargo? Will he support true democracy in Haiti? Sadly, thanks to these cables, we no that the answer is no. Plus ça change...

        For the US State Department and its allies, it is all a ruthless chess game, and every pawn matters. - Mark Weisbrot

        by Anak on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 03:39:10 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I would not jump to conclusions... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          GrumpyOldGeek

          ...about the Honduras coup or these other matters based on what is in a particular cable.  Historical analysis of past events that are published once records become unclassfied almost always show that government decision making processes are less unambiguous than assumed.  

          For example, during the Cuban Missile crisis in 1962, it was assumed at the time that Kennedy had forced Kruschev to back down.  It wasn't until much later that the quid pro quo on US missiles in Turkey was revealed and it was not something that either side admitted up front was linked.  Also, sometimes for political reasons the cable traffic reflects what the bosses back home want to hear, not what that diplomat thinks or the facts show.  Ultimately, the decision making back home is what counts in terms of results.

          In the case of Honduras, the outcome was the US - in a remarkable shift from past practices - joining the OAS in supporting the return of the elected President.  Getting him back into office was another matter and the subject of hard negotiations involving any number of governments, including leftist governments like the Brazilians under Lula.  Since no one wanted a military intervention in Honduras, the end game was messy.

          So, no, I don't regard the Honduras cables as showing there was no change in US behavior - they show these diplomats saying and reporting X, Y or Z.  But they were not the ultimate decision makers and the outcomes were decided elsewhere.  Obama did behave differently.

          I also don't think Obama is pursuing the same policies in Latin America as Bush.  But that is another discussion.  Evo is not an uncontroversial character - just ask the people who live in Santa Cruz.

          •  But ultimately your argument is cynical. (0+ / 0-)

            We don't know everything, nothing is unambiguous, many factors are involved. Ergo, what, don't do anything? Don't discuss it? Don't criticize our government? No doubt you were not against the war in Iraq because you didn't have access to all the pertinant information, so making an opinion would be rash. Is that what you are saying?

            Also, your argument has no end. For even after many years have passed and many history books have been written, we still can never fully understand a human event. I have a friend in Mexico who says the Aztec custom of ritual sacrifice is an invention of the West. I don't see how you could argue with him with your way of thinking.  

            For the US State Department and its allies, it is all a ruthless chess game, and every pawn matters. - Mark Weisbrot

            by Anak on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 05:38:14 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I don't say that (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              GrumpyOldGeek

              Make judgements.  The point was that if you make them, try and get the broadest number of sources and then always remember to keep an open mind.

              With Wikileaks, it is becoming clear that the cables, contrary to hype, don't establish anything earth-shaking.  This is true whether someone stands on the right or the left.  They have some interesting information, but nothing so far that challenges what experts both in and out of government already knew or suspected.

              What is happening with some people is that they take the cables, sometimes even a single sentence in a single cable, and wave it to say "ah-ha! This proves X!"  The cables need to be read, as with anything, in a larger context.

              As for your friend and the Aztecs, feel free to argue.  There are lots of issues that historians contest centuries after they took place.  With the Aztecs, unfortunately, we are burdened by the fact that the Spaniards: a) destroyed many records and artifacts kept by the Aztecs; b) had a political agenda to make the Aztecs look savage and, hence, inferior.  We may never know the truth.  But it is plausible for someone to question the Spanish account, certainly.

              •  From the way you write (0+ / 0-)

                you sound like you live comfortably within the bubble that is the most powerful nation in history. It reminds me of the various "white privilege" diaries. You have no critical spark, urging caution, but you can talk like that only because of the privileged space you are articulating from.

                Tell those who voted for Zelaya in Honduras only to see him toppled in a coup not to worry. Very easy for you to say.

                For the US State Department and its allies, it is all a ruthless chess game, and every pawn matters. - Mark Weisbrot

                by Anak on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 07:25:26 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Not that this is a biased opinion, eh? n/t (0+ / 0-)

                  "All people are born alike - except Republicans and Democrats" - Groucho Marx

                  by GrumpyOldGeek on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 10:02:00 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Estás borracho o ¿qué? n/t (0+ / 1-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Hidden by:
                    GrumpyOldGeek

                    For the US State Department and its allies, it is all a ruthless chess game, and every pawn matters. - Mark Weisbrot

                    by Anak on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 11:16:09 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Haven't had a drink in 33 years. HR'ed. N/T (0+ / 0-)

                      "All people are born alike - except Republicans and Democrats" - Groucho Marx

                      by GrumpyOldGeek on Sun Dec 19, 2010 at 12:44:23 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Aja, así que eres un borracho (0+ / 0-)

                        y por eso sabes exactamente por cuantos años no has tomado una cervecita.

                        I figured that was basically the case. Otherwise hard to account for your drunken-like "logic."

                        Oh, and you're not supposed to HR someone you are in a discussion with. I was gonna forgive you for being drunk, but, now that you insist that you are not drunk, expect to hear from Meteor Blades, señorcito.

                        For the US State Department and its allies, it is all a ruthless chess game, and every pawn matters. - Mark Weisbrot

                        by Anak on Sun Dec 19, 2010 at 12:57:05 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  The poster insulted you. And you can challenge... (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        GrumpyOldGeek

                        ...that. But you can't HR it.

                        Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

                        by Meteor Blades on Sun Dec 19, 2010 at 12:34:29 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  How is this not an ad-hominem attack? (0+ / 0-)

                          It helps to look through the whole pie fight to understand the context of this comment.

                          Later, the commenter is somehow compelled to repeat the personal ad-hominem argument in a followup response, regardless. Paraphrased, it "you're a liar and drunk no matter what you say.".

                          Classy.

                          This is a personal ad-hominem attack. It is much more than an insult, especially when I've made it evident that I have 33 years of sobriety under my belt. It is deeply personal and hurtful to me.

                          I asked perfectly reasonable questions. I challenged the logic. I went back and re-read the comments and the referenced article. I responded with reasonable challenges to the claims being made. So did another commenter.

                          I rarely toss donuts. I mostly ignore the hate and name-calling. Usually, I avoid pie fights. Assange hero-worship interests the inner gehavioral psychologist in me.

                          If your opinion of what I can or cannot HR is different than mine, so be it. To a non-alcoholic, it's a minor insult. To a recovered alcoholic, it's deeply personal. There's a subjective aspect here.

                          There's a donut that got tossed at me upthread in this diary. HR'd for right wing talking points, was the claim. This was so far off base it made me laugh, not complain. It's been a very long time since I've been the recipient of a donut. Sometimes you're just standing under a flock of birds.

                          "All people are born alike - except Republicans and Democrats" - Groucho Marx

                          by GrumpyOldGeek on Sun Dec 19, 2010 at 02:41:15 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  The issue is not whether the comment... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            GrumpyOldGeek

                            ...is an insult or ad hominem. The issue is that, under long-standing rules here, you should not be HRing someone with whom you are in a dispute. You should leave it up to others.

                            Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

                            by Meteor Blades on Sun Dec 19, 2010 at 02:46:33 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Ok, I get it. (0+ / 0-)

                            I don't agree, but I get it.

                            "All people are born alike - except Republicans and Democrats" - Groucho Marx

                            by GrumpyOldGeek on Sun Dec 19, 2010 at 03:25:52 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Grumpy (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            OIL GUY

                            If you look at my comment history last night, you will see that I was out for like 3 hours. It was a Saturday night and I went out with a girl for fun and a few beers.

                            When I got back home, I wanted to see if anyone had replied to my comments on the Wikileaks Information Thread. When I saw your comment at 2 AM, I had no idea what it meant. So, in a joking manner I thought that maybe you also went out for a few drinks--it's a common thing to do late on a Saturday night--and that that was why your comment made little sense. I wrote it in Spanish because I didn't consider my comment to be serious, i.e. if you didn't understand it, whatever, it's not important.  

                            I am sorry if you thought I was insulting you.

                            For the US State Department and its allies, it is all a ruthless chess game, and every pawn matters. - Mark Weisbrot

                            by Anak on Sun Dec 19, 2010 at 10:40:25 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                •  Please - you know zero about me (0+ / 0-)

                  ...so don't make judgments as if you do.

                  •  This is not about you, ok? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    denise b

                    Just like the "white privilege" diaries were not about every single white person reading them. One cannot fight racism or the pervasive notion of American exceptionalims if one is unaware of their manifestations.

                    Are you reading the articles and diaries about Wikileaks cables btw? From what you say about Honduras, I am guessing you are not, but perhaps I am wrong. In any case, I wrote my comment last night after reading an excellent summary of what the cables say about us as Americans. Portions of the article were posted on the Wikileaks Information Thread, but I highly recommend reading the entire article:

                    Most striking is the unstated but pervasive belief that the United States is wiser, more skillful and dedicated than anybody else. Therefore, it is natural that America rules the roost. Our serial failures of judgment and action, at home as well as abroad, have left not a trace of modesty on our conduct. That hubris has a number of practical meanings: One is the conviction that Washington should set the policy direction for allies and friends, jerk them back into line when they show a tendency to stray or are unresponsive to American leads, and cultivate a corps of informers and helpmates from among the native elites....

                    A second manifestation is the disparagement of anyone else's opinion. In the hundred or so cables and excerpts that I've looked at, I have yet to find one instance of a visiting Assistant or Under Secretary of State or resident Ambassador seeking out interpretations or assessments of situations -- much less encouraging their interlocutors to offer policy advice. The sole aim of these meetings seemingly is to test their foreign counterparts' fidelity to the Washington line and to sniff out any dangerous deviations....

                    Another cardinal feature of the prevailing American attitude, about which we exhibit no self awareness, is the reflex to divide foreigners into the two categories of "pro-American" or "anti-American."...

                    A third feature of the American mindset is set in stark relief by the Wikileak cables. It is the identity in our officials' minds of the American national interest with the world's interest. In instance after instance, they declare the cavalier premise that Washington's foreign policy serves the well-being of the international community. Indeed, any other worldview that does not accept this premise is illegitimate -- selfish and dangerous, too....

                    There is another singular feature of how the United States sees itself that takes shape as we read these cables. It is the extraordinary sense of entitlement. An entitlement endowed by 9/11. It hallows all those other characteristic American traits with a robe of righteousness. Our unique virtue, our superior wisdom, our mission to save the world, our right to judge and to proclaim, our authority to set new rules or to break old ones -- all is rendered true and just by the calamity that we have endured. America feels that it has found in 9/11 a diplomatic ace that wittingly or not matches the Israelis' use of the Holocaust. It is not at all clear, though, that it serves us well.

                    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

                    For the US State Department and its allies, it is all a ruthless chess game, and every pawn matters. - Mark Weisbrot

                    by Anak on Sun Dec 19, 2010 at 10:33:54 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

        •  Apparently, Washington didn't agree with illegal (0+ / 0-)

          opinion from the Embassy assistant who sent the cable.

          You simply can't conclude that the big bad government is hiding actual illegal activity. You've seen only one side of a conversation. You won't ever know what the discussions were that went on in State Dept HQ.

          I don't see what would make you expect changes in the US position with Latin America. Wondering with optimism followed by deep disappointment because of words in a cable about only one of the countries of concern? This isn't even rational.

          Personally, I tend to expect little or nothing to change. When something positive happens, I'm pleased.

          We actually have relaxed communications between the US and some Latin America countries in small ways. Recall that we were instrumental in rescuing Chilean miners. This is not something that Bush would have done, imo.

          I remember early talk about relaxing relationships with Cuba, but Republicans crushed that idea right away. The party of NO.

          Haiti is such a sad situation. The people in the US helped somewhat in the expected short-term reactionary way. Obama pledged support, too. It's just that the Republic Party leaders filibustered the funds. Now they've arranged for Obama's pledge to be a lie. Assholes, all. I've been there only once. The experience is permanently etched in my brain. Cholera. Riots protesting the never-ending corruption. No resources. No economy. No leadership. Dirt. Cardboard villages. And the most positive and resilient people in the World. I expect even less now that Dems have lost the House.

          Real help for Haiti must include a long-term international commitment. It won't ever be enough.

          "All people are born alike - except Republicans and Democrats" - Groucho Marx

          by GrumpyOldGeek on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 05:17:03 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Words in a cable? (0+ / 0-)

            Re-read what I wrote. I said that was one of many cables that show no change. Also, you seem to be unaware of all the facts surrounding the coup in Honduras. There's a good Huffington Post article that explains things clearly, esp. the Obama admin's attempt to redifine what a "coup" is.

             

            For the US State Department and its allies, it is all a ruthless chess game, and every pawn matters. - Mark Weisbrot

            by Anak on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 05:31:08 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  The US determines whether a coup is illegal (0+ / 0-)

              in a different country? By whose laws? The Geneva Convention says nothing about coups.

              Now that I think about it, aren't all attempts to take over a sitting government illegal? This seems to be a universal concept, imo. The US certainly has no laws that define the legality of a coup in any other country. This would be up to the country itself to decide.

              According to HuffPo, Professor Obama speaks about nuances and the misuse of the word "coup" in the case of Honduras, and this means that Obama is somehow hiding a secret evil agenda to disrupt the Honduran government by not agreeing that it's a "coup". Or worse, not enforcing the non-existent "coup" laws. This is nonsensical.

              Read the article with this conspiracy theory in mind and the reporter's bias and lack of objectivity becomes blatently evident.

              I really don't get what point you try to make when you say "many cables that show no change". It doesn't mean they're true, false, or even related to one another. They weren't forgeries, perhaps? There's no evidence about this, either. They show consistency, as the message is fundamentally unchanged? What are you getting at?

              "All people are born alike - except Republicans and Democrats" - Groucho Marx

              by GrumpyOldGeek on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 09:58:35 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

  •  Really? (0+ / 0-)

    It seems like you are just being an opportunist to get your name in the wikileaks discussion.

  •  Now several more years have past (0+ / 0-)

    and the rw haters have seen no reason to take care of the 9/11 first responders even yet.  They are waiting for them all to die.

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